Bionix wing short takeoff and landing

eg: stopmotion, new-york, street

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  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Is there any other trike wing on the market that can do this???

    Distance to clear a 50' obstacle say 500'. Probably more like 300'.
    The landing roll was what....100ft????
    More like 75ft would be my guess

    Darling, throw away the rest of those brochures.

    My next trike is going to be a red and black Tarnag and Bionix wing.... the most innovative design modification of a trike wing since Francis and Gertrude made the first flexwing out of the kitchen curtains 60 years ago.

    Way to go Air Creation
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    And that was in calm winds.
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    That's all good but its all one-up not at gross where the specs for all aircraft are listed for. With gross weight (2-up) the distance to clear 50 foot obstacle should go from 500 feet to around 850 feet which is about right for most two seat modern trikes with 912's on them.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Hi Abid,

    First off let me say I think the Revo is an exceptional machine. I actually like the looks more than the Tarnag. And I am sure the quality of materials and workmanship are second to none. And I am certainly not saying one machine is better that the other.

    The only time I have seen a trike land in such a short distance was when the was a 10 to 15 mph head wind. You have to admit that is pretty impressive. However my experience is quiet limited to be sure. Have you seen anything like it in your experience.

    I also understand the 2 machines are for 2 different markets. Some people buy sport bikes and some people buy cruisers. I a cruiser guy. I like low and slow. And like most cruiser guys who shake their heads at all the crazy stuff the sport bikers are doing I have to scratch my head and wonder why anyone would want to fly 100+ mph in an open cockpit anything.

    Is there any similar video of the Revo taking off and landing in similar conditions? I would love to see the Revo's short take off and landing.
    I think I read somewhere you said the Revo's stall speed was at 40 mph. Is that one up or at Gross?

    What is the take off speed at gross?
    What is the slowest I can fly if I want to fly low and slow with one up?

    At Gross?
    I'm a big guy too and was wondering how many pounds of people can the Revo fly with. If I weigh 250 lb what is the limit of passenger weight to hit gross?


    I have seen the video of the Revo and several other trikes taking off in gusty winds and it looked like it had as much to do with the skills of the pilot as it did the airplane they were flying.

    By the way the conditions those guys are flying in are conditions I do my best to avoid.

    I have watched video of Larry's and your flying and your piloting skills are truly something to which I aspire. I wish you were closer so I could get some training with you guys.

    Skybird
  • Bob  Thompson
    by Bob Thompson 7 years ago
    607 feet for the Bionix at 472 kgs to clear 50 foot.
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Oh ok. 607 feet just like QuikGT450 which is 660 feet to clear 50 foot obstacle except its 2 sq. meters smaller than Bionix and just like out Reflex 13 (13.5 sq. meters) as well.
    Pretty inline with all the rest of modern 912S trikes.
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Hi Skybird,
    Download this video. This is with a Profi Classic on a Delta Jet 912S. A wing that is about a 8 year old design. A trike that is a 5.5 year old design. So its the best performing wing we offer. In fact we don't even offer that wing anymore. Its outdated as far as we are concerned.
    The flight is at high density altitude (5000 feet). I don't have to tell you what high altitude does to your True Air Speed and thus ground speed. Frank as you can see is no slouch. He is a pretty big guy.
    Take a careful look after downloading that video flying and landing at 5000 feet. Tell me how far he rolls at that altitude to takeoff and land. And then try and think what will happen at near sea level.
    There are a lot of good machines out there.
    Abid
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Here is the link (Skybird)
    http://www.emuvideo.com/videos.php?page=reddevil
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Stall speeds should always be given at gross just like all standard aircraft do. All specs should be given at gross and if not should be noted with a note
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Also, conditions are a mix of pilot experience and machine's handling. No new pilot is going to fly in windy gusty conditions on "anything". It takes experience to learn to relax and anticipate the almost imperceptible little corrective inputs experienced pilots make to the wing unconsciously in flying in turbulence. There is no short cut to that except time. However, its more pleasant to fly a wing which is smaller in turbulence with a higher wing loading than a large span lighter wing loading wing. That's just simple Physics. While I got kicked around coming back from Sebring airshow in Jan this year with the Reflex 13 wing on a Monsoon at 80 mph, Larry was flying the Revo with Reflex 11 and missed half the bumps I felt and had to correct for. That's just how it is.
  • Bob  Thompson
    by Bob Thompson 7 years ago
    Abid, there are big differences between you and me, first is that I have flown the BioniX. The second is that I am not in any sort of business to sell anything.
    You seem to spend so much time telling everyone that the product that you sell is so good, and everything else is rubbish, that is a good way of rubbing people up the wrong way and driving potential customers away.
    Skybird is like many pilots in that he is happy flying around at comfortable speeds and does not want to go everywhere at top speed, why can't you accept that?
    Feel free to import your machine to Europe where there is good competition and then see how people choose what trike they buy.
  • Bob  Thompson
    by Bob Thompson 7 years ago
    I notice your take off to 50 feet went from around 850 feet to 660 feet with the GT450, that is still higher than the 607 feet for the BioniX. I also notice that that figure is 951 feet for your Reflex 11 wing (50% more than the 607 of the BioniX).
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Hi Bob,
    No I don't say everything else is rubbish. I am sorry, it seems that way to you. And I have never ever said that Air Creation Tanarg is rubbish.
    I just point out things when they simply do not stack up at all.
    And I have never claimed to have flown the Bionix.

    But I also believe the factory's own specs that they have published on their website. Don't you think things should be corrected they should be corrected when they look like contradicting factory's own specs.

    When I listed 850 feet that's for smaller (11 meters) wings like for QuikR not GT450.

    Regarding Reflex 11 yes its gross weight is 472.5 kg (1040 pounds) so at that gross weight unlike QuikR (450 kg) its 50 foot clearance is at 951.

    But lets compare apples to apples (15 sq. meter wings we are talking about here). Lets compare the slightly larger wings we offer like Profi TL (13:1 glide ratio) to Bionix. Bionix hardly shows any advantage in performance specs there.

    But its not all about numbers Bob as I am sure every experienced trike pilot knows. Its about handling as well.

    This rather hard to quantify thing is not expressed in numbers. But when you a cross country of 700 miles per day, you are almost guaranteed to run into and pass through rougher handling patches of weather. There handling matters a whole lot in decreasing pilot workload and increasing safety as a result. Also simply increasing pure pleasure of flying.

    In those areas, Air Creation traditionally lacks against new P&M wings and other new wings till Ixcess 13. Now Bionix I don't know but you descriptions of comparing it against Quik, seem to point to the same trend as before. Now obviously this handling thing is an opinion and yours may be that you don't like power steering but mine is I do. No point an an argument on that. It just is what it is.
  • Peter Shetler
    by Peter Shetler 7 years ago
    Dunno, Bob. I don't find that Abid's posts are aimed at "selling something". I hear him saying that his machines are good (true) and "There are a lot of good machines out there" -- also true. I have never flown (or seen) a BioniX wing, but I have to agree that there is nothing in the specs to indicate that it is significantly different from lots of other good wings out there. That is NOT the same as saying it is "rubbish"!!!

    I find arguing about manufactures' numbers pretty silly, and could mislead newbies to the site. At BEST published takeoff and landing distances give you only a very general idea of wing performance. Whatever the manufacturer managed under ideal conditions has very little to do with real world situations. Can YOU look down a runway and tell if it is 607 feet or 650 feet? Do you KNOW the trees or rock wall at the end are 50' or are they 75'? From the AIR? Did you chart out performance for every weight and density altitude combination, not to mention grass length and wind conditions? Is that engine/prop combination sitting behind you tuned for optimum performance? Any trike pilot that does not want to end up as a statistic would want to give themselves all kinds of latitude when figuring out what STOL capabilities the machine has. Manufacturers' numbers little to do with it.

    Our machines can almost always outperform us pilots. At least 90% of the STOL question isn't what the trike/wing are capable of, but what the pilot is capable of and has practiced -- a LOT and under lots of different conditions.

    I love landing in fields, roads and the outback using my "outdated" aeros profi wing, so when I am at my home field I spend a lot of time in touch and goes working at hitting the field exactly where I want to at the speed I want to, with various loadings, winds and density altitudes from 1000' to over 10,000'. I don't think I even know the Aeros published specs, but I have a fair idea of what I can do. Any triker that wants to engage in off-field landings would do well to become accomplished first on nice long runways. For you newbies, let me just say that trikes are WONDERFUL machines that are ideally suited to short fields -- lots of control, lots of lift, rugged gear and almost no tendency to bog down the nose wheel and flip like our engine-forward cousins. In capable hands, ALL trikes are STOL machines compared to most general aviation options.
  • Peter Kelsey
    by Peter Kelsey 7 years ago
    Hi Abi,
    I watched the videos on the REVO Website and I thought that compared to the Tanarg the Revo was a very poor substitute.

    To be honest comparing the Revo to a Tanarg would be just like comparing a push bike to a Corvette !!!! the Tanarg outshines the Revo in every sense.
  • Bob  Thompson
    by Bob Thompson 7 years ago
    I understand what you are saying, but I know that my grass strip is 150 meters and the take off and landing shown in the video above is me on my 4th take off and landing with the BioniX, the others were with my wife on board and were just as short!
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Hi Peter Kelsey ... of course I disagree with that assessment but that's why we have choices and you are welcome to your choice. I am not sure which you are referring to as push bike and which one is Corvette, honestly. I can't make out. Hahaha.
  • Lars Pettersson
    by Lars Pettersson 7 years ago
    Write BioniX in a post and you will have ten post from Abid telling us how bad it is, See older post and a pattern occurs. It would be nice if we had so many post about the Revo. It looks like it is a great trike. Tell us more of the god things of your brand and not so much of the others (AC). And if Abid don't want,maybe Larry can fill us in.
    Lars
  • Peter Kelsey
    by Peter Kelsey 7 years ago
    Abid,
    In your initial response you say that you don't know whether I mean the Revo is the Pushbike ? Yet without me posting anything after to confirm you get the idea I class the Revo as a Pushbike !!! well 10/10 for observation ;-)

    Having now taken the time to look through all the posts on here about the Revo I am now aware that you are involved in the product and are obviously 'selling' the Revo as a better product than any other competitors.

    Looking at both products namely the Bionix Tanarg & the Revo I am still a staunch supporter of the Tanarg and seeing the prices of both machines I draw the conclusion that my money is better spent on the Tanarg than it would be on a Revo.

    My view is that the Revo whilst a flashy looking trike will appeal to the US Market, it would never make it onto the UK Market due to having' the air of being a pregnant rollerskate'
    I am sure that it would fly nicely and is over engineered, but that will keep it out of the UK Marketplace based on it's empty weight..... at least the Tanarg is accepted by the UK Aviation Authorities.

    By all means offer me a 'demo flight' and you can be certain I will take you up on your offer and then I will post my findings ;-)
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Hi Lars,
    Ok so you want to believe people who say they were flying S&L at 35 mph when the factory (meaning Air Creation ITSELF) specs say the stall speed is 40 mph. Or let some poor newbie think that the takeoff to clear 50 feet is 300 feet when according to the factory (that is Air Creation itself), just the takeoff roll of the Tanrag Bionix is at least 279 feet.
    You are ok with misleading figures that contradict the factory figures.
    You like getting newbies fooled??
    Air Creation should be happy someone is holding people to look at the correct data that they published themselves.
  • Bob  Thompson
    by Bob Thompson 7 years ago
    And he has not flown a BioniX either! I spent a few hours on the phone with him and he is looking forward to flying it. 279 feet take off roll? That is about 100 meters, my iXess 15 would take off in that easily. The BioniX is much shorter.
    None of this matters as you will say anything about your product to sell it, How many Revos with the 11 meter wing have you sold Abid?
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Hi Peter K.,
    UK market is UK market. You guys have in essence a closed market not open to free competition.
    Oh sure on paper it is free but in reality a foreign manufacturer has to open a local UK company than spends 100's of thousands of dollars and 1.5 years on paperwork to establish what you call an A-1 company and then prove BCAR Section S compliance and then they can sell fully built machines in the UK market of 75 trikes a year that have to be divided up between Airborne, P&M, kit built Tanarg via Paul D., Raven and the new comer.

    That must be the UK idea of an open market. Red tape over red tape followed by black tape. I believe that UK CAA having the mandate to cover their own expenses by the UK government is more of a commercial entity interested in getting money for everything they do instead of being tasked for public safety being paid by tax payers like FAA is.

    You guys are lucky to have good trikes in the form of P&M there in UK. (I am guessing you are in UK but it seemed you were in Italy). Count your blessings.
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    And Bob that is what I am saying.
    AIR CREATIOn FACTORY SPECS HERE
    http://aircreation.fr/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=JRPERIqJLCU%3d&tabid=186&mid=747&language=fr-FR

    You should ask the factory if you can take off in 100 feet, why is it that factory trained test pilots after doing all kinds of testing in standard atmospheric conditions decide to list their take-off roll at 279 feet in Tanarg 912S with Bionix.

    Please ask them.
    Because the real specs by Air Creation are at the Air Creation's website and you are in essence telling me they are wrong and you know their machine better than them

    Check it out seriously before you post more figures like this. Please stop spreading information that does not stack up to factory specs. Someone new to trikes will get wrong idea and we will have a Tanarg Bionix stuck up in some tree somewhere.

    Here is the Air Creation LINK FOR PERFORMANCE SPECS. Now remember, this ain't me, this is Air Creation's specs:

    http://aircreation.fr/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=JRPERIqJLCU%3d&tabid=186&mid=747&language=fr-FR
  • Peter Kelsey
    by Peter Kelsey 7 years ago
    Abid,
    I am based in Edinburgh but also have Aviation interests in LIML, KTIX, LCPH, LSGG, LSGB, CYFB, BGBW, BIRK & HEOC so I am pretty diverse in where I operate.

    UK is open to all to Manufacturers who want to put their product onto the UK Marketplace, but it does cost plenty of cash..... but if you thought the product was that spectacular, you would put your $ where your mouth is and storm our market with your product..... The SKR albeit a 3 axis has outsold every other 3 axis microlight because it is concisely marketed here, but we have far better machines available which are marketed shoddily here.... it is all about the R&D of a product that pays off here !!!!
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Bob,
    If you'd like to talk about the Revo. I would be glad to talk about it. But I suggest we start a different thread on that and you won't catch me stating that Revo can clear 50 feet obstacle in a little over 300 feet.
    I simply wanted to point out that you have a tendency and a pattern to state Air Creation Bionix specs over and above FACTORY ITSELF has listed. You tend to do that constantly and you know what they say about that ... if you say the same thing over and over, people start believing its the truth, especially people new to triking. You should be careful with such a free hand that you take with the specs.
    Abid
  • Bob  Thompson
    by Bob Thompson 7 years ago
    Look at the videos that I have posted Abid, none of them use as much runway as you seem to think.
  • Bob  Thompson
    by Bob Thompson 7 years ago
    Try this one at max AUW http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2BmyFME7H4 with my wife in the back
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Hi Peter K.,
    And now you are truly astonishing me my friend stating that UK is open to all manufacturers.
    Its simply not.
    I am eagerly waiting for the day when EASA will make UK conform with equivalent of LSA rules and standards Europe wide. So there is a big enough market to justify someone spending money to come at "all of EU" and not deal with tiny little market numbers from one tiny country to another across Europe. That is simply not smart business and I am sure you know that well.

    Oh and I hope EASA includes trikes in their standards and BMAA and French ULM associations loose their battle to "protect their own turfs" because in the end its not good for the UK consumer in the long run. EASA may impose stronger LSA standards, but at least everyone will have to follow them once and they will apply across EU. I can deal with harsher standards if there is some business case (market size) for making them worth our while.
    Abid
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Ok Guys and Gals,
    I am going to say my peace with this thread. I hope when talking performance we stick with manufacturer specs and in case of Bionix they are officially here

    AIR CREATIOn FACTORY SPECS HERE
    http://aircreation.fr/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=JRPERIqJLCU%3d&tabid=186&mid=747&language=fr-FR

    Best,
    Abid
  • Peter Kelsey
    by Peter Kelsey 7 years ago
    Abid,
    I have already put a few foreign registered 3 AXIS ULM's into the British Isles by a 'loophole' that has upset the 'Turf Protectors' and whilst I have chosen to not exercise the 'loophole' on a wholly commercial basis for flexwings I have used it to operate a German registered Flexwing in the UK.

    I can see that the Air Creation Figures contradict what Bob Thompson says, but his numerous videos seem to pay testament to what he states !!!

    It might be that Air Creation are understating their figures to build in a safety margin for Legal reasons ? I do know that Aeroprakt state the A22 Foxbat gets airborne in 80mtrs... I have regularly taken off in 40-50mtrs but also seen others take 150mtrs to get airborne...... so the 150m guys will feel cheated..... but I feel they underestimate the performance by a small margin.

    So you can see I am open minded on whether Bob's figures are correct, his videos do seem to be showing shorter than published runs
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Hi Peter,
    Well would be great if you shared the legal loophole with us flexwing guys as well :). Revo will pass Section S in its sleep but the A-1 thing is just over the top and in my opinion a ridiculous demand.

    If you carefully look at Bob's video link he posted with 2-up (his wife in back seat) which probably brings him close to gross depending on fuel, you will see the takeoff run is close to factory specs.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Geeze,

    I see there has been a lot of conversation since I last logged on
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Abid

    I read all the posts and I have yet to get answers to my questions.

    What is the dry weight? 540 550

    Brs 40lb.

    Oil 10lb

    14.4 gal fuel at 6.216 =90lb.

    140
    550
    690 lbs
    10 lbs radios helmets and suck

    700lbs before you ever get a pilot on board

    Please correct me if I am wrong Abid. I cannot find these numbers on you spec sheet and would like to know.



    Fuel
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    700 miles a day in a trike. Come on Abid even this newbie isn't that gullible. Even at 100 mph I think you would have a hard time doing that. Especially more that once.

    And by the way, Bob nor any one else told this newbie that those take off runs were 300 ft. I just watched the video.

    I have watched several videos of the Revo taking and it looks to me like you would have a problem making the 50' at 951 even with 100 hp engine.

    If anyone is trying to pull something over this newbie eyes it is you my friend. You will not answer direct questions. I ask for specs on the Revo and you tell me about other trikes.

    Who are you trying to market the Revo to Abid.

    Instructors right. One of our instructors here in Texas looked at the Revo and did not feel he could train students in it. It is not a trainer in my mind.

    It is a great toy for you and Larry who are highly skilled pilots and apparently board with low and slow. That is your market I think. Maybe the pylon racers. Maybe the guys giving tours in Hawaii perhaps.

    Do you train students in the Revo. That the only S-LSA you sell right?

    I understand you have to tout the best of your product and the negative in other products. That is what a salesman does. I am sure if you were selling the Tarnag you would be talking about it the same way you talk about Revo now. That is what salesman do. I think what irks people Abid is you cannot seem to even admit the Bionix is anything extraordinary.

    You have made a big business decision that you want to see triking go in a different direction than most of the people I have been in contact with. In fact the only reason I think anyone will buy an SLSA trike is because they want to instruct.
    Honestly Abid, no one I know personally in triking wants a trike that flys that fast. Certainly none of the 4 instructors I know.

    Most people spend their lives going too fast any. We have airline pilots in our group who want to fly low and slow.

    I have 25 hours solo and I have spent 23 of them under 500'. Half of that under 100'. I want to fly along with a flock of pelicans at 50 mph. I want to see that family of foxes run for cover from the watering hole. I want to fly by an eagle's nest and be able to watch them watching me. I want to land at my friends house with that 500' runway.

    You want to fly 700 miles a day.

    And I do understand the physics of flight. Of course smaller wing and heavier trike will fly better in gusty conditions. But it also means things are happening much faster. It makes it easier to push the envelope, It also means if you get outside the flying envelope it is less forgiving. Mistakes are more costly.

    And another thing. I would be will to bet a gallon of fuel you've got you some light weight slow moving trike stashed in the hanger that you take out when nobody is watching.



    I can't imagine what an engine out would be like in the Revo. Have you ever tried it?

    Oh and what Bob said. How many Revos have been sold in the US in same time Air Creation sold 3?
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Here is a Google translation from French about the Bionix wing. I don't think it is quite right but understandable.

    The response in rolling of the hang-gliders to flexible aerofoil is wholly
    dependent their speed of flight, weak at low speed and superabundant at high-speed. This led for the modern machines whose speed is important, either with a very insufficient handling at the low speeds not allowing their practical exploitation, or with a hyper sensitivity in rolling at high-speed making control delicate, even dangerous. Low speeds remain theoretical, in practice the fast wings appear unable to carry out slow approaches and to be posed short in turbulent conditions (or in the event of engine failure). The increase in performances led to the quasi generalization of the systems of trim in pitching making it possible to vary cruising speed in vol. the various systems used do not act that on speed bars released. The efforts in pitching cannot be optimized for all the adjustments and the wings are hard to push with the adjustment fast and hard to draw with the slow adjustments. Moreover, because of fixed geometry of the aerofoil (twist, lobe and profile), the performances and the handling can be optimized only for one phase of flight and control is limited at the ends of the beach speed.

    THE CORSET: the state of the current art


    The CORSET is a as easy to use ordering of configuration as a simple trim in pitching. It ensures simultaneously the regulation speed bars released and the modification of the forms and profiles of the aerofoil to adapt as well as possible at this speed. This system is patented by AIR CREATION. Genuine conformator of the spinal column of the wing, the CORSET acts directly on tensions of the aerofoil to control its forms. It makes it possible to modify in flight the central tension of the back part of the veil by means of one order actuated by the pilot. A hoist exerts a side traction on the part postpones each half aerofoil via two rigid slats interdependent of the veil, which approach under the effect of traction. Fabric Kevlar bands bent in the sail in the direction of the scale transmit this additional tension until the tips of each half wing. The device is supplemented by straps (ou/et a pocket of skittle) forming a broad V, fixed around the slats and skittle, maintaining the form of the profile behind mast. When the tension power station of fabric is increased, V is tightened, thus allowing at the edge of escape exchange of veil to be raised, decreasing the incidence of the central profile and increasing its reflex camera (following figure). The ordering of the hoist is carried out by means of a lever with conical rolling up to linearize efforts. The “slackness” of the aerofoil between the two points of traction in “tended” configuration is taken again by a system of flexible guide joint for more esthetics and of aerodynamic effectiveness. Advantages: The system of CORSET combines a great simplicity of realization and implementation to one remarkable effectiveness. It makes it possible to combine with only one order the speed regulation of cruising and the adaptation of the geometry of the aerofoil at this speed, while acting on the lobe (“soft” of the veil ensuring the handiness), the twist and the central profile of the wing. The wing becomes deformed with the manner of those of a bird, which are adapted always perfectly to each phase of their evolutions. The following formal amendments thus are obtained: Slackened tension: Twist of end of wing increased Incidence of the central profile increased Decreased central reflex camera Increased lobe Advance of the center of pressure What induces: Healthy behavior with the great incidences Strong coefficient of bearing pressure Great handiness in rolling AND decreased Cruising speed Increased tension: Decreased general twist Incidence of the central profile decreased Increased central reflex camera Decreased lobe Aft movement of the center of pressure What induces: Reduced trail Weak efforts in pitching Stability in rolling AND increased Cruising speed

    The lobe is minimal, getting perfect stability of road without tendency upon engagement movements of rolling. The twist of ends of wing is minimal, getting the best aerodynamic output with the weak incidences. The central profile is reflex, guaranteeing conservation of a perfect stability in pitching in spite of the reduction in the twist of ends of wing. Reduction in the lobe and the twist, associated with the increase in the reflex camera of profile partly central generate one drag decrease and thus an increase allowing output speeds more important for a given power (less consumption, maximum speed level higher). The reduction in the incidence of the central profile between the slow flight and the fast flight moderates the amplitude of the clearance of the bar of control between the two configurations, which improves ergonomics and control, increases the beach speed usable and shortens the landing and takeoff distances.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    I copy and pasted this from an earlier post and I would like you to clarify something for me.

    Are you saying the 8 year old Profi classic is the best performing wing you offer or rather used to offer but you don't anymore because...IT'S OUTDATED.
    LOL WTF???

    Abid Farooqui has commented one of your videos on Trikepilot Social
    Hi Skybird,
    Download this video. This is with a Profi Classic on a Delta Jet 912S. A wing that is about a 8 year old design. A trike that is a 5.5 year old design. So its the best performing wing we offer. In fact we don't even offer that wing anymore. Its outdated as far as we are concerned.

    Let me get this straight ... You choose not to even offer the outdated Profi....BECAUSE?????................

    I must be reading this wrong or something...
  • Larry  Mednick
    by Larry Mednick 7 years ago
    Guys Guys, Guys, please... All abid said, which he has no business saying because of his position at Evolution Trikes, is that Bob reports contradictory numbers to what is published on the Air Creation website. Truth be told I know Abid and myself are both very interested like the rest of you to find out more about the BioniX. However, when I see a 39 MPH stall published on a 15 meter wing I see it is has a higher stall speed than a Profi TL or an X14 for example making me think slow speed is NOT the strong point of the BioniX.

    BOB on the otherhand has repeatedly stated he lands at 30 MPH with his BioniX which leaves me scratching my head... None of his numbers are in the ball park to what is published on the Air Creation website. I'm not being argumentative, just pointing out a fact. I don't assume the stall drops 10 MPH with Bob flying solo. So do I believe Bob or the website? I honestly don't know. I would like to know the truth though...

    The Reflex 11 is no match for any kind of short take off competition, I am quite sure the BioniX will eat the Reflex 11 for breakfast with any kind of take off distance. The Reflex 13 which cruises quite peacefully at 65 MPH might challenge the BioniX' stall and slow flight and the Reflex 15 (single surface) is now available for the low and slow crowd.

    In any case I'm sorry if anyone thinks Abid is coming off like he is trying to put down the BioniX. In reading carefully, I see he never once compared it to the Revo or said the Revo was better or said anything other than the published specs of the BioniX are ordinary and the written specs of Bob's BioniX are EXTRAORDINARY!

    BTW. Abid has flown 700 miles in one day on cross coutries across the United States.
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    Exactly Larry.
    I never once called Tanarg rubbish.
    I simply keep pointing the constant barrage of contradictory data against back to qualified and measured numbers Air Creation factory has put out themselves. SIMPLE!
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Larry,

    Could you tell me how much you weigh and how big of a passenger you can take with you on a cross country flight with a full tank of fuel. And how long of a runway would you need to take off a gross.

    And Abid it is the newbie that's asking all the questions about weights not Bob.
    I don't think Bob could care less.
  • Larry  Mednick
    by Larry Mednick 7 years ago
    Sure, our website has all the specs you should need www.evolutiontrikes.com or email me at www.tampabayaerosport@yahoo.com

    Abid and I LOVE triking and the last thing we want to do on this list is turn it into free advertising with boasting on our behalf. Sure we will post photos and videos from time to time, but we really do want to keep these lists for discussion as a fellow triker.

    I am deeply sorry that it may have come across that anyone was putting down any other product. I can agree it would be easy to mistake some coments for that, but I assure you it was not intended to read that way.

    PS. this video is very impressive and leads me to think Bob's numbers are more acurate than the factories...
  • Jan Ferreira
    by Jan Ferreira 7 years ago
    This was an interesting conversation, I was just wondering if Skybird Triker is one of the aliases of Bob Thompson since he admits he is using aliases to promote the Tanarg. I don't see much identification of who you are Skybird Triker. All the other members who comment on this topic have real names. I think you have to tell us who you really are. I only know about you being a newbie and nothing more but since I know Larry and Abid personally I can only make comments about them. They have been flying, building and modifying Trikes with the Wright Brothers and for you to come in as a newbie and question their knowledge and sincerity just pisses me off. In my opinion between Abid and Larry there are few people in the world that know more about Trikes than them. Abid is the biggest stickler for detail when it comes to regulations, specs and performance, ask me, he was one of my instructors and you couldn't get away with bullshit. Larry on the other hand must be one of the best trike pilots around; he can fly any wing and tell you immediately if there is something wrong or how it could be improved. I have seen him tweak a bad wing and make it perfect. The discussion amused me and I couldn't figure what's the point. Who cares if I have to take a few feet more to get in the air or a few feet more on the landing? If you are concerned about those few feet you shouldn't be flying any Trike, go for balloons. After reading how passionate you are about the BioniX wing, I can only think you wanted to create this buzz to promote the wing. That is fine, go ahead and inform us but do not imply that Abid is promoting the Revo above the Tanarg, he his way to smart for you. In any case, I would swap my slow coach Delta Jet anytime for a fast/slow Tanarg or a fast Revo. Any takers who want to fly slow and low?
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    No Skybird Triker is not a Bob Thompson alias. Not even the same country. And besides I would never say "Rubbish".

    I've just got a little ol Aeros HKS with a 15 meter Solo Aquilla wing that flies from 45 to 70. I can take off in 300 - 400 ft in calm winds depending on the density altitude. A little bit longer to land because I only have front wheel brakes. The last time I flew I went to a EAA meeting/flying. I was the only trike there. When I took off I caught a thermal on the runway and was climbing at 1100 ft a minute. Normally I climb out at 800 to 900 ft a minute.

    I got the whole thing....the HKS engine with 43 hours, the 5 year old wing with a brand new sail and cables, BRS, Radios, Headsets, Lowrance 2000 GPS, full instrument panel for a couple a thousand less the price of a 912 Rotax.

    I think both the Tarnag and the Revo are way out of the price range of most trikers including me. But if I win the lottery I am buying a couple of each. I would have Larry sign one of the Revos and Abid the other.

    However I am saving for that Bionix wing. That is the revolution in wing design as far as I am concerned.



    My photos and videos are posted for every one to see.

    Besides, I don't think Bob Thompson has the time or the inclination for such childish subterfuge.

    Skybird Triker

    You are right about one thing Jan and nobody can argue with that...Larry is one of the best trike pilots out there and man he can fly that Revo.
  • Peter Shetler
    by Peter Shetler 7 years ago
    Skybird: I gotta say that I am with you on the question of price. I got my 150-hour, 582, Antares trike with TWO wing (Aeros Still and Aeros Profi) and a trailer for about $18K about three years ago. And THAT was quite a stretch for us, even as a two-income family. I think we are going to continue to see only a few new trikes being sold each year across lots of manufactures until they come down to prices more like $20,000 or less. It is pretty hard to see why a trike should cost more than, say, a new honda civic, let alone three TIMES the cost of a new car that many of these new machines are running. Yes, I do understand economy of scale -- we wouldn't be able to afford a civic either if they were only making 10 of them a year -- but having a very high purchase cost added to significant money to get licensed plus needing to rent hanger space plus insurance (if you can find it) and it just isn't do-able for all but the extremely well off. If we want our industry to thrive I think manufactures and dealers need to look at a new high-volume, low margin business model instead of the very-low-volume, very-high-margin business model most seem to be intent on pursuing.

    But them, I'm not the one struggling along as a manufacturer or dealer -- I suppose the world looks different to them. I just know that given the current situation owning a Revo or a Tanarg will never happen for me.

    Peter
  • Lars Pettersson
    by Lars Pettersson 7 years ago
    Jan feereira said...
    "The discussion amused me and I couldn't figure what's the point. Who cares if I have to take a few feet more to get in the air or a few feet more on the landing?"
    I say Abid!
    And thanks Larry for your post where we can see some shades not only black or white,I'm a big fan of your videos keep them coming.
    Lars
  • Tom Donovan
    by Tom Donovan 7 years ago
    HI Peter i agree. The reson i fly trikes is because they are cheap. I cant aford to hanger a large 3axis aircraft. Or buy a new Tanarg or Revo (Wish i could) I got my trike for 3000 euros. It nedded a lot of repairs doing to it, which i was able to do my self to keep the cost,s down but now it,s a great trike (for me)
    Ps my old instructor has a new tanarg with the Binox wing so i hope to get to fly it soon. Il post what i think of it here in a week or two.
    Tom.
  • Peter Kelsey
    by Peter Kelsey 7 years ago
    Abid,
    I would love to be able to divulge the 'loophole' to all the Flexwing guys but it would not be a wise move for me to do so ;-)

    I actually think my 'loophole' will become the basis for all Foreign Imports when EASA get their teeth into Microlighting, but the 'Turf Protectors' in the UK are doing everything within their powers to keep me off their 'lawns'.

    I was told in no uncertain terms that I would get shafted if I trod on their 'lawns' by importing non BCAR-S Microlights. I have completed 7 imports and if they have shafted me, they must have used high quality Vaseline or KY Jelly.....Because I didn't feel a thing ;-)

    Maybe you should send me over a Revo and I will covertly put it through my 'loophole'..... if I win I get to keep the Revo (and you get a saleable product in the UK with rights ) if I lose..... you get your Revo back !!!

    What dya think !!!!
  • Bob  Thompson
    by Bob Thompson 7 years ago
    I have never used aliases to promote the Tanarg. If you have read this then tell me where. I used a Nome de Plume when I wrote the article for Av8magazine.com, and have a different username for my youtube account, and for some forums, but they normally have Bob in them.
    I don't need to promote the Tanarg with the BioniX as people are ordering them as soon as they have test flown one. I am retired and gain nothing from Aircreation selling a trike or a wing.
  • Jan Ferreira
    by Jan Ferreira 7 years ago
    Hi Bob, I don't care what plume you use to write under. Why use fake names in the first place, what have you got to hide? If there is a misunderstanding you are responsible for it. Abid asked you about buying a BioniX wing and you responded as follow:

    Yes the BioniX can be bought on its own, but I think that it only fits a Tanarg trike. Most of the reports that you have read were written by me (I also use other names for writing).

    I have noticed many post the over the last weeks about how wonderful the wing is and when you admitted that you use other names it all made some sense. I am not the only one who picked up on your "plumes". Here is another example:

    by Bill Pilgrim 7 days ago Hi Bob,
    Just read the bit about all the reviews being written by you under different names, what a joke!
    You have me thinking these wings must be good because several independent people say so. Are you the promotions manager for Air Creation? Who do you work for ? Whats your real name?
    At least Abid and Larry are up front about who they are and how their income is derived

    Go figure.......
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Abid and Larry,

    Apologies accepted and let me offer mine if I offended any one. That was not the intent and I am sure that was not your intent.

    I have a lot of respect for you guys and your aircraft. I think you guys are top gun pilots and you have created a top gun trike. I have no doubt you spared no expense in creating the Revo and it has no rival. But it does have limitations.

    Abid there is nothing wrong with saying your trike has limitations. Every trike and every wing has good qualities and not so good qualities. Some wings are for beginners, some for experienced pilots, some for instructors and some for top guns. Every one of us that flies trikes understands that. You made an elite trike for pilots at the top. I think many of us would think more of your product if you were more up front about the limitations.
    Perhaps many of us are intimated by an 11 meter 100mph wing. We have all our close calls in our 'outdated' wings and I for one am glad I can land at 40mph. As for me I have my hands full with what I've got and I don't have a spare anything in the hanger so if I break it I'm grounded.

    It would be just as silly to argue your machine would work for a new pilot as it is to call the Revo a "push bike". God Abid you do seem to bring out the devil in some folks. Your response was even sillier. "I have to disagree."

    You both are passionate about triking and your product. We all know that. If anybody on the planet is going to sell this trike it is you guys. Abid you are like my uncle the car salesman. Every time we talk I know I am going to hear "the sales pitch". He doesn't know he's giving a sales pitch, he's just talking about his life but to everyone else it's a pitch. It seems like anything that comes up on the site you are trying to bring the conversation back around to "YOUR PRODUCT."

    Look at this from Sean Scott's review,
    "Every other trike, including my own very capable DeltaJet 912/ProfiTL, has now been relegated to also-ran status."

    I understand reviews are what they are and we all want to do our best to promote something.

    It is very easy for me to misinterpret your passion for your trike into...if not an insult then a least a "poo, poo" of my wings. When Bob said "rubbish" you took it as him saying the Revo was rubbish. He was not. He was saying you're full of bs'. And just like when you call "your best performing wing" the profi 'outdated' I hear... behind the times, old school, worthless, wouldn't even fly with that guy and his funky trike. And the Profi is a move up for me. I know you are not saying I have a funky trike Abid just like I know my uncle isn't trying to sell me a car. But it is none the less irksome.

    So let's do this. We will all agree not to call the Revo a "push bike" if you agree not to promote the Revo... unless of course someone asks you specifically about the Revo. Just tell it like it is. I think we would all appreciate that.

    I for one hope you guys sell dozens of these Revos. The sport needs you guys, your skills and your flying machines. I hope someday you might want to break out one of those outdated wings of yours and go flying with the rest of us.

    And that's all I am going to say about that.
  • Larry  Mednick
    by Larry Mednick 7 years ago
    Thanks Sky Bird, no apology needed.

    FYI neither Abid, nor I had anything to do with Sean posting his review here on Trikepilot. it was a surprise to see it posted. Honestly.

    There does seems to be a HUGE common misconception about the REVO and I just wanted to clear that up. I have to say something because I keep hearing people talk like it is only a fast, very expensive trike. First off the Revo actually starts in the high $40K range (which is still not exactly cheap, I know) and with the Reflex 15, it trims at 55 MPH. Yes the Revo also goes 100+ MPH and tops out at over $80,000. Any way there is more than one configuration available and most beginners and flight schools get the Reflex 13.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    This is the first I have heard that. I have been told and was indeed under the impression the the 11 m wing and the Revo were married.

    So the Revo is S-LSA for 3 different wings. The instructor down here was under the impression he could only train with the fast wing and bought another new trike.

    Are there any specs published with the other wings?

    So what do you get for the 40+grand?

    Anything about it on your website??
  • Larry  Mednick
    by Larry Mednick 7 years ago
    Glad I could clear that up. I know even the Airborne guys were saying the Revo was expensive. I said its actually the same price as an XT. They were amazed!

    The problem is my personal Revo in all of the videos is loaded with every option and topped off with a 10.9 meter wing 90% of the time. And quite honestly the Reflex 13 is great, but just a very well rounded wing, so there isn't much to talk about that's super exciting, so I think it gets left out of the conversation quite often.

    Yes the website has everything you could ever want to know about pricing and specs and more if you find all of the links hidden on the home page.

    www.evolutiontrikes.com
  • Mike-in- Thailand
    by Mike-in- Thailand 7 years ago
    For my money, the major achievement that Air Creation (AC) have given the triking community with their BioniX, is a wing with a greater range of speeds. Aircraft manufacturers did this over the past 100 years with the invention of flaps, slats, variable geometry, air ducts on the wing’s top surfaces, etc. and this has enabled pilots to fly faster and (land) slower with the same wing and this, is undoubtedly a very good thing.
    Hitherto, we needed to make our trike’s wings forever smaller to gain speed and the trouble with ever-decreasing wing areas is that wing loading increases and the whole thing becomes far less forgiving when the pilot ventures outside the envelope. I learned to fly trikes in a Quik (10.6 sq m wing) and I never found it in any way intimidating; in fact I enjoyed its twitchy attributes. I now fly a Tanarg/iXess 13 and this too suits me well.

    The BioniX in its current state of development gives the pilot a slower (and therefore safer) approach and landing speed and, by a few turns of the handle, enables the pilot to reach higher (and/or more economical) cruising speeds than were provided by earlier AC wings.
    In the right hands, small-area wings are perfectly safe and they perform very well but imagine the future fun we’ll have if trike R&D continues down the path that’s been started by AC. Remember, the BioniX is a first-stab at this type of variable wing; in the future we’ll be landing even slower, cruising much faster and absorbing turbulence better than we are now – who doesn’t want this?

    Such R&D is a major investment and I applaud AC for putting their money where their mouth is – not every manufacturer will be capable of matching this commitment and so they’ll be limited to developing smaller and smaller wings.
    The future IMO is therefore most certainly in wings that can alter their configuration during flight.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Very well stated Mike. I agree with you whole-heartedly.

    Actually my buddy and I are both saving our money for one.
  • Amy Saunders
    by Amy Saunders 7 years ago
    There is one other misconception regarding the REVO with the Relex 11 wing that should be cleared up.

    I am a newbie trike pilot. My training is in the REVO with the Reflex 11 wing. This configuration is amazing. The sensitivity and responsiveness of the wing is incredible. It cuts thru the air and turns on a dime. I have learned to let the trike fly itself and use small inputs as to not over control. This seems to require additional training for the guys learning on the Reflex 13. I am sure that my ability with the REVO is attributed to not only the REVO, but also the quality of my instructor. You can not question Larry's reputation as being one of the best pilots and instructors. The REVO with the 11 shouldn't intimidate, you just have to respect it and learn how it flys. Just like you do with any other machine.

    The REVO IS more of a sport bike vs. a cruiser. But like a sport bike, you can still cruise along the beaches when you want and have kick ass power to ride hard and fast. Having a little extra power left when you need it is always, in my book, a good thing.

    I own a Pulsar XP, which is a quick little fixed wing plane. She is a lot of fun to fly. However, the sense of freedom that I feel when flying the REVO is unmatched. I share Abid and Larry's enthusiasm for flying and the REVO. I am saving up my dimes to have my own.

    We are all so lucky to be able to fly in a time period of such freedom and innovation, regardless of what we fly.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Thanks for your input in this Amy. It is great to hear from a trike newbie because Larry and Abid make everything look easy. I love the 1 wheel landing thing.

    I have indeed been under this misconception. I have talked with other trike pilots who have flown the smaller wings. None have flown the any Reflex wing though. They all seem to like the way the small wings handle and are surprised at the ease of control. Their complaints were mushy controls at slower speeds and longer take off and landing rolls. They would all seem to end the conversation saying they like it..... but..... they would rather have have the slower shorter landings and take offs. I have only flown 3 different wings and only one of them solo and all of them were 15 meter wings.

    I am just here trying to learn about our sport and these amazing flying machines. I like to ask questions. Most of all I want to fly safe and for a long long time.

    I have never said anything against the Revo except it was a trike for advanced pilots. And that I thought the Bionix wing was preferable because trim speed changes without bar movement back and forth in Reflex wings. I figure North Wing will be working on something similar real soon.

    It is great to hear from a woman pilot. I have been learning about the WASPS of WW2. This is their web page if interested in learn about some amazing women pilots. http://www.wingsacrossamerica.us/wasp/

    As far as Larry reputation and prowess as a pilot, only a fool would question that.
  • Amy Saunders
    by Amy Saunders 7 years ago
    Skybird
    Larry and Abid do make everything look easy. You have to hate them and respect them for it. Sure is fun to fly with them though.

    I haven't noticed to much mushy controls on the slow side of the wings capabities. But I have noticed the faster you go the more sensitive to input it becomes, which is pretty norm for higher speeds. The winglets have added just the right amount of stabiltiy for the higher speeds and rolls. The electric trim is great and relieves all the pressure, so it makes it easy to stay with the wing. My take offs and landings are still a work in progress, so I'm not sure on the distances :-)

    The Tanarg and the BioniX wing are a beautiful combination. The wing is really cool with the corset design. Leave it to the French to take a piece of their history and add it to a wing. LOL

    I would love to have the opportunity to fly one sometime.

    Thank you for the info on WASPS. I will check the website out. I, unfortunetly, don't know to many women pilots, especially with trikes.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Amy,

    You need to meet my friend Lucinda triker. She is on this site. I just finished working on her almost new Pegasus 503 with the Astra wing she recently purchased. She soloed months before I did and racking up her solo time every chance she gets. I installed radios, GPS and added a second set of mag switches on the instrument panel. The original set is on the right side out of eye view. It's a great little trike with plenty power for her. Simple to preflight.

    I am working on another buddy's Astra 912 right now. New aux fuel pump, Strobes and directional lights on the wing. And the annual. I am chasing down an oil leak around the oil pump. I can find oil everywhere but where the leak is. The Astra is a real work horse. I trained 4 hours in it before I had the Aeros on line. Solid and forgiving wing.

    I really like my Aquillia 15 meter wing. I have a friend with 6000+ trike hours who tells me it is his favorite wing. He has had a job the last few years and has not been flying but he used to test fly new trikes in South Africa. This guy had 250 hours in the front seat with his dad before his dad would let him solo. An amazing pilot.
  • jeff trike
    by jeff trike 7 years ago
    What I like about Air Creation wings is that they way you can twist a knob that changes the geometry of the wing. You have a new wing now with different stall speeds, top speed, pitch and roll sensitvity. You have a new wing on your trike.

    This is totally different from "electric trim" which is a way to shift you hang point in flight. You wing is the same, with the same flying qualities. All that changes is bar pressure. You could accomplish the same by looping a bungie around the control bar.

    The BionX CORSET has taken variable geometry to the next generation

    jeff
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Yea Jeff I think the Air Creation has turned a page in Flex wing history. I think Francis and Gertrude Rogallo would be proud. They were interested in only one thing...personal flight. Although their names remain on their numerous patents the rights were turned over to the people years ago.

    I would think the rest of the industry is already drawing up plans to do something similar, including the hang gliders.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Hey Larry,

    My buddy and I were discussing your trim system. I thought I had read somewhere you use a bungee system to hold the wing in position rather that moving the hang block to change CG.

    And again Larry I would like you to answer a question I have asked several times. I just learned recently the Revo offers the larger wings.

    I was under the impression the only wing certified for training was the 11 meter wing.

    My question is.......Is your 13 meter wing certified for training?

    Skybird
  • Larry  Mednick
    by Larry Mednick 7 years ago
    As far as the electric in fligt trim goes, the Reflex series wings all use a sliding hang block with a unique design unlike anyone elses. No binding, jaming, or breaking gears. It is the Quik series wings and now the SST from Airborne that use a bungee system pull in the back of the keel, not the Revo.

    Skybird, I'm having issues replying to you through this sight... But this medium works fine.

    To answer your question, yes all three wings are available for SLSA for training and Steve was aware of the wing options. He got a killer deal on a used Airborne SLSA with an SST but he thinks a slower style wing might bebetter and he might be chnging it out. I think he would have loved a Revo, but it would have been a stretch to get the options he wanted :-(
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Thanks Larry and Abid that clears up several things. I was really surprised to hear of the bigger wings. This sure makes the Revo much more attractive to me.

    I also paid a little more attention to the specs sheet and found the weight info at the bottom of the page. My guess on dry weight was only over by 50 pounds. DAAA

    I was also impressed with the video Larry did while changing the trim speed with hands off. It so gool to watch the airspeed drop... kinda like a cruise control.

    One thing for sure I have never seen a North Wing with the quality of the Reflex series. It is unmatched as far as I am concerned and like all seem to attest that do so....a dream to fly. I have no doubt your collaboration on creating these wings brought North Wing to a new level.

    I can see from all the posts there is a lot of excitement about the Revo and the Reflex and it will surly be one of the big players in the decades to come.

    I think all that needs to happen of for someone to do a fast and furious movie with trikes. We can get the big studios finance the trip for any trike that wants to show up to help make the movie. It will be the biggest trike fly-in ever.

    Or maybe you could get a Revo in the next James Bond movie. Now that would be awesomel.

    Larry, how about putting one of those big wings on your Revo and get some video doing what big wings do best..

    Keep up the good work guys.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Oh and Larry, don't give up on him yet, he is still lusting after that Revo.
  • Larry  Mednick
    by Larry Mednick 7 years ago
    So you want to see the Revo do some STOL? Yeah it can do that. We are bringing 5-6 Revos to Sun N Fun plus getting out additional Revos to customers and are swamped getting them all certified and tuned and crated. But! After SNF we will get you that video. It's a great idea.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    I will be looking forward to the videos.

    Larry, so I assume the fast wing Revo falls under the new rule that needs the new endorsement for over 87 knots.

    Can you tell us a little about what that endorsement entails.

    Looking forward to the STOL video
  • Lars Pettersson
    by Lars Pettersson 7 years ago
    Don't forget helium in your tires.. and gas in your stomach...
    And to clear for the newbies its always the handbook that tells the right numbers.
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Speaking of flying over water guys. I do a lot of it. My HKS has not missed a beat in the 50 hours I have been flying it. Still one must prepare for every eventuality.

    My question to my self was... If I had an engine out over water would it be better to pull the BRS or try and fly it in.

    Here is my thoughts. Once in the water the BRS is no good. If I hit the water and get knocked out I going down with the plane. If I pull the BRS I feel like I would have more of a chance to remain conscious hitting the water going straight down. With the chute hanging out it would make it easier to find the airplane. And I would suppose it would be more likely it would be seen by witnesses.

    What do you think guys?
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    No need to mess with the helium Abid I hear hot air works much better. ;-)

    Sorry I just couldn't resist.
  • Abid Farooqui
    by Abid Farooqui 7 years ago
    For water .. all I can say is that the slower (forward) speed, probably the better off you'll be. But ask Larry. He has been in water in flying machines twice. Once in an airplane and once in a trike.
    I can't even swim. So when I fly over vast water, you can bet I am trying to keep my kahones in steel. It has a completely different dimension for me.
  • jeff trike
    by jeff trike 7 years ago
    Flying over water...

    I agree with Abid. You want as slow a forward speed as possible, which I think may encourage you to pull the BRS handle.

    Skytriker posted a Youtube earlier of a guy bouncing into a wheat field
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCt-BN7IucY It's at 2:00 in the video.
    I think hitting water with a high horizontal speed would be as bad.

    Martin Bromage, the guy who died crossing the English Channel in January died landing in the water.

    Jeff
  • Skybird Triker
    by Skybird Triker 7 years ago
    Hey Abid,
    I was catching up on this thread and I saw where you have 2 women students. That is just too cool. I spoke with Amy the other day.

    I am seeing a lot more women riding motorcycles these days perhaps more will take to the air. REAL TRIKES HAVE WINGS!

    I just posted a video I did for my friend Lucinda Triker who soloed months ago.

    Have you guys trained any women trike pilots?

    Skybird
  • james Pendleton
    by james Pendleton 7 years ago
    Wow, women and trikes! There is your movie idea. I was in marketing for years and something just sounds right about that. Sky Rats, Sky Gypsies and so on... boring but "Hot Babes in Trikes" might sell in Hollywood. Maybe "Hot Alien Women in Trikes" would be better?! If anyone sells a screenplay I would love to be a creative consultant. I would work cheap.

    Sorry, after reading all these post about variable wing geometry and wing performance I awoke to bionic corsets and really fast women trikers. Or was it women flying fast.

    The truth is that in todays markets you really do need women in the mix. If we are going to see this sport move up the aviation food chain we must understand the role women play in major purchasing decisions. As participants in the sport they will most certanly add a unique dynamic to triking.

    That is why the new generation of wings is so exciting. Wing technology will make it easier to atract new customers including women and new customers increase production and bring down cost and add political pressure to accomodate the sport and so on. Mike in Thailand is correct in applauding the R&D in wing progress. Would anyone imagine GA having success with private pilots without the development of flaps?

    I am confident that triking will move forward in popularity when these wing developments pull together the best of both slow and low cruising wings and heart thumping, turbulence eating, 100mph + cross country wings into one platform. So hats off to you engineers and mavrick designers. Slap a corset on it, slide the hang point, trim it and gear it. Heck stick some more condoms in it. Just keep up the good work cause its an exciting time to be a triker.

    By the way I am happy to see that all you guys could come together there at the end of such a heated discussion. It is obvious that this sport and especially the members here are profesional and at the end of the day respectful to each other. I learn alot from these outbreaks and hope they never end.

    JP
  • David Dixon
    by David Dixon 7 years ago
    Skybird, with 25 hrs solo, you had better get more altitude and leave the geese and foxes alone for now till you get more hours. Under 100' is not a good altitude for a newbe trike pilot. Altitude is a new pilots best friend. You can do what you want but that would be my advice.
  • Toby SkyDog
    by Toby SkyDog 6 years ago
    Started lookin at videos. To many to figure out so looked at most commented.
    From what I understand the takeoff distance is based on weight and wing size. Yea maybe some wings are more efficient than others but please..... It can not matter that much. It is basic physics. How come the new Bio wing still has wires when the topless are suposed to be so much better.
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