Trikepilot Social

Whoever told us that an annual for our trikes will be $200 has not talked to an A&P lately it would seem. Whoever suggested that $375 for that silly "class" is a great deal was pulling our collective legs methinks. Turns out, many A&Ps are happy to work for $25 to $50 an hour, especially for something as simple and straightforward as a trike. Take the A&P at an airfield near here for example. That’s his rate- $25 to $50 per hour depending on the job. Guess how long it takes to inspect a trike? Well, I got an annual for a helluva lot less than $200 thank you. In fact, I could get my trike inspected for about eight years for $200.

I am very happy about this because I was not looking forward to paying some guy $200 to walk around my trike for a half-hour or so with a clipboard. I was not happy with the notion that I would have to drive some great distance and pay a bunch of money to take some silly indoctrination called the “trike 16-hour class” from a couple of trike newbies so I could sign some ridiculous paper on my own trikes. After all, I took the trike 16-year class which I figure makes me more qualified than them. So I grabbed my clipboard and my logbook and I flew on over to a neighboring airfield and asked about this $200 crap.

Turns out annuals are about $25, which means I am not interested in the trike 16-hour class either, thanks but no thanks. I can only hope that more of the ridiculous crap that is being shoved down our throats in the name of Sport Pilot turns out to be such obvious bullshit.

From here on out whenever I meet an A&P I will be getting a card from him/her, you can bet on that. I’m starting a collection, find out which one is hungriest. I would much rather pay him.

John, Your $25 annual is worth even less than what you paid for it. Pencil whipping an annual is such a moronic idea it isn't even worth the time to write about it, much less recommending it to others. 

If an A & P doesn't even have sense enough to know the legal liability he's opened himself up to by doing this, do I want him working on my aircraft? Hell, no. He put 1200 hours of his life into getting that ticket and doesn't have enough respect for himself to do a decent job, why should I expect him to have any respect for me? 

Have you aver thought of the field day a good liability lawyer would have with you if you were to sell your trike and it was then involved in a crash?

FAR 43 Appendix D lists all the items that MUST be checked during a conditional inspection (please be intelligent enough not to write a response about those things that are inapplicable). Did you get an itemized list, as you should, detailing what items were inspected and the results? Did he take the sail off the airframe so you know there's no handling dents, crushes or corrosion at the airframe joints? Did he even clean it?

John, I once had enough respect for you that I put the most precious thing I've ever been intrusted with in your hands, my son's life. I can assure you, that will never happen again, and I can only hope no one else is that foolish ever again, either.

Rick

Rick,

You have been fully indoctrinated.

Ole

Hi Rick,

As I read over John's original thread, it seems to me that you are off base in your conclusion that he is somehow advocating breaking the law.  'Pencil whipping' an annual inspection wasn't  mentioned, nor was it recommended by him, as far as I can read it.  Instead, he's advocating shopping around for a A&P for an annual inspection at a reasonable rate.  Something wrong with that?  And as far as his opinion about the value of the 16 hour course inspection course, I guess he's entitled to that as well. 

I personally took the 16 hour course and I felt short changed by it.  My total costs for the course,  travel, food and lodging was close to $1,000.00 and I felt that I didn't get my money's worth out of it BIG TIME.  But I now have my rating and am entitled to do my annuals on both my ELSA's legally under the new rules.  I appreciate the "privilege" but that cost is high for it and I wonder if I wasn't better off under the old ultralight freedom era days.

Joe

Rick: John, Your $25 annual is worth even less than what you paid for it.>

You don't have to convince me of that, I’ve been doing my own annuals for 28 years now- I was looking for one for 25 pesos. You'd think that down here, in the Bootheel of Enchantment, we could get some kind of deal for pesos.

Rick: Pencil whipping an annual is such a moronic idea it isn't even worth the time to write about it, much less recommending it to others.>

Now you're getting rather pretentious don't you think? Name-calling too. Shame on you Rick. Let me make myself perfectly clear- I think $200 annuals are for trike newbies. And I think that silly class is too. OK?

Rick: If an A & P doesn't even have sense enough to know the legal liability he's opened himself up to by doing this, do I want him working on my aircraft? Hell, no.>

I'll be sure and tell him that you're not waiting next in line Rick.

Rick: He put 1200 hours of his life into getting that ticket and doesn't have enough respect for himself to do a decent job, why should I expect him to have any respect for me?>

Because you yell a lot? I don't know how you define "decent job" but I am quite happy with the results.

Rick: Have you aver thought of the field day a good liability lawyer would have with you if you were to sell your trike and it was then involved in a crash?>

That's what lawyers live for Rick- field days. Remember the poster recently who wanted to GIVE AWAY his perfectly good flying machine because of liability? I fail to make the connection Rick except that maybe… we should’t be selling our trikes?

Rick: FAR 43 Appendix D lists all the items that MUST be checked during a conditional inspection (please be intelligent enough not to write a response about those things that are inapplicable).>

Duhhh. You mean like, MOST OF IT is inapplicable? That list? I brought my own list Rick. It has things that you won't find on the list-with-the-fancy-name. Oh, like crossbars, keels, control bars, kingpost, heartbolt, hang bolts, dive sticks, push pins. Trike stuff- you know. My A&P downloaded the Fed form and we compared them and we quickly noticed that my list is far more "applicable". After all, it benefits from many years of development. Oh, and MY list also checks the BRS, you know- that scary thing that goes BOOM and drags out a ‘chute? The BRS is just part of the SCOPE AND DETAIL not found on Appendix D to Part 43. What a joke.

Rick: Did you get an itemized list, as you should, detailing what items were inspected and the results?>

Well better yet I stood there and watched him and helped him Rick. He's a very capable and experienced professional despite what you seem to think having never even met him. Yes Rick, I have the checklist in hand now. Do you feel better? Maybe I should have offered him thirty bucks?

Rick: Did he take the sail off the airframe?>

WHAT?! Hell no! he didn't take the sail off the airframe. In fact, on the day some bureaucrap starts telling us when to strip the sail for no better reason than an annual inspection is the day I peel off the silly registration number and the rest of those stickers and that ridiculous data plate and send 'em all back to OK City with the paperwork. Read my lips Rick- Hell no he didn't strip the sail! As I see it stripping the sail for no better reason than an annual is the apex of stupidity and only a moron would do that Rick, let alone suggest it to some newbie. Hey you guys- how many of you strip the sail for an annual? Hello!

Rick: … so you know there's no handling dents, crushes or corrosion at the airframe joints?>

What the chingada have you been DOING with your trike Rick? Handling dents? Crushes? Corrosion? You better strip that sail! Sounds like you need some more dual too!

Rick: Did he even clean it?>

Clean it. Did he CLEAN it? Now I'm getting the picture amigo! You went for the $200 annual and they gave you a bath! Took you to the CLEANERS! No wonder you are so indignant. You got TOOK! What sort of mess must your trike be if the wrench has to CLEAN IT? WHAT… did he clean?

I don't know what you think I'm driving Rick, a garbage scow? A trout? No he did not feel compelled to clean my trike-not even dust it off. I clean my trike myself Rick, I like to think that much is evident at first glance. I would be embarrassed to show up with a trike like yours that needs a good cleaning.

Rick: John, I once had enough respect for you that I put the most precious thing I've ever been intrusted with in your hands, my son's life.>

Huh. I'll have to dig back through the 7144 student apps I have on file from the old days as a BFI. Your boy's app must be in there somewhere. What continent was that on Rick? In any event, we must have been flying a trike I annualed my own self with zero input from some lazy fed.

Rick:  I can assure you, that will never happen again, and I can only hope no one else is that foolish ever again, either.

Rick>

Fine.

The $200 trike annual is for trike newbies Rick. The silly 16-hour paperwork indoctrination is for trike newbies too Rick. I feel much better giving my money to an industry professional, one who has been at work for many years, and let’s make quick work of it.

Funny this should come up now. One of my students just returned from the silly class in Prescott, Arizona. He tells me that the class was held by Jim Scott. Now, I have known Jim Scott and the Scott family for many years- his family owns the flight park in Arlington, Washington where I had an office as a trike instructor for five years, and where I taught many people to fly trikes. I have great respect for Jim Scott. I see him as an honest guy, a professional type, a guy who loves to fly and a true enthusiast. One thing he just ain't though- he’s not a triker. I suppose he’d tell you that himself. Nor are that couple who are selling the $375 class. That’s OK though because the class isn’t really for trikes at all. The class is for newbies and for stinkin’ Feds.

Anyway, I grilled my student about the actually study course. Turns out he feels he learned a great deal about papers, very little about trikes themselves. There was no sail stripping, turns out- not one sail was stripped. In fact I don't see Jim Scott stripping any sails off any trikes. he has more common sense than that! And guess what Rick- there was no bathing either. No cleaning whatsoever. That's too bad in this case, because at least one of the trikes on display as an example is the sorriest bunch of bolts I have ever laid eyes on- or it was last time I saw it about three years ago. They dragged that wagon out and my student reports that Jim said he just wouldn't fly it. Period. But guess what- it had passed the Fed inspection, even though the only way to get it to make any noise at all is by prop-starting! It's all a bad joke Rick, and the joke’s on us.

Well, I have far better things to do than elaborate on the drivel you have posted to the 'net. For one thing, I'm gonna have to get with the local light-sport repairman here and explain that he's gonna have to get back to work with the fleet we have here- they were all just annualed and not a one had the sail stripped. Or a bath either for that matter. I’m guessing he won’t be too happy about it so I better go crack the whip. I’ll tell him, “Rick sez…”

Take a pill Rick. My regards to your boy,
Ole
3076389MORON
FAA 610- "Where Fun goes to die!"

Just a quick comment about the Appendix D to Part 43 issue.  My operating limits state IAW Appendix D to part 43 or IAW the Manufacturer's Recommendations.  Well in this case I am the Manufacturer so I use the parts that apply and ignore the parts that don't...then add a few of my own.    Having said that.....the key is to make sure whoever inspects the trike whether you or someone else...actually inspects all the important safety items so that the trike really is safe to fly!  The paperwork is only important so you don't get in trouble later if anybody checks...

Kent

You mean to say some of the nonsense is just plain nonsense? That comes as quite a relief!

Ole
FAA-610 "Where Fun goes to die!"

Ole, when are you going to learn to put fly people into the two seperate groups that they belong. one is you and all the other flyers out here that just want to FLY and norhing else, no FAA no GA no nothing. and the other group that is always the same lovers of Bureaucrats BS, anal retentive laced up pilots with a capital P, that speak in anagrams, and worse think in anagrams. these people usually are found in GA and when they move over to the trike world try to bring all that BS with them. Anyone who was ever in the Service will know these people too well.
the next time you are dealing with their faa speak just take a moment and a deep breath and remember when you stress about them you only stress yourself
chill my brotha

Tom and Wyatt the wonderdog

I just saved $955 on silly annuals! I think I’ll go have a steak dinner!
See, the way I figure it, I could travel from the Bootheel of New Mexico up to Corning, California and take the Silly 16-Hour Trike Newbie Class from the silly trike newbies and I would have spent a grand easy. That’s $375 for the class and $625 travel expenses, the later figure being quite conservative we might all agree. Plus, I would have had to suffer through more stinkin' Fed indoctrination- they would have tried to shove some useless crap down my craw I’m sure. My life would be cluttered-up with useless paper and my mind would be sullied with distain and frustration over people who are in turn indifferent to me. What a deal huh?
Today I took my Cosmos Phase II 503 to a local professional, a guy who has been looking over planes of every description for many years, and we went over it with a fine-tooth comb. Since this trike is somewhat simpler than the 912er I took him a month or so ago it was even easier to inspect. Guess what? Trike annuals are getting cheaper. WahOOO!
I’m thinkin’ filet mignon charred rare… Mexico here I come!