Trikepilot Social

What are the advanages and disadvantages of topless wings?

Patrick,
I recently replaced my old 14-meter LaMouette with a new Aeros Profi TL, 14-meter. The Profi is strutted. I like both wings. Here are the pros and cons of a strutted wing as I see it.

+ More choices of hangars. Without the struts - with the kingpost - my trike was 14 feet tall. It fit my hangar, but it wouldn't fit a lot of hangars. The strutted wing fits many more.

+ Slightly better performance. Specs for the strutted Profi show it to be a little faster than the kingpost version. (5mph?) But it's also said to not handle as well. I don't know what "handle well" means in this case. Of course, the two versions of the Profi are not exactly the same wing, so the performance difference may not be due to the struts.

+ The flying wires will never droop. This is aesthetic. I dislike having slack flying wires. It looks sloppy, and introduces play when you move the control bar on the ground. Since you have struts instead of flying wires, this problem neatly goes away.

+ You can fold up the wing on the trike. Let's say you're at a fly-in and a thunderstorm is expected to blow through. You have no adequate tie-downs and you don't want to stress the wing anyway. With the old wing, I'd remove it from the trike and put it in its bag. A 45-minute job. The strutted wing is easier. Fold the mast, putting the control bar on the ground. Remove the battens. Release the haul-back. Then fold the leading edge tubes back together (well, within 3 feet of each other). Secure the fabric to the tubes with ties. You're good for any wind. Some people do this with the trike on a trailer. If you support the folded wing somehow, you can then transport the trike without ever removing the wing from the mast. This makes setup and breakdown easier than putting the wing in a bag. However, this will work only with an open trailer, I think. In my case, I have an enclosed trailer, so ...

- If you DO want to put the wing in the bag, the strutted wing is a LOT harder. On the Profi at least, the struts have to be removed at both ends. Because of the angles of things, it's a bear getting the holes to line up so that the pins will go in. Maybe the NorthWing wings are easier in this regard. It takes me about 75 minutes to get the wing off the trike and into the bag. Same the other way.

- Weight. The strutted wings are all about 20 pounds heavier than the non-strutted wings. In my case, I mitigate this by putting the struts into my old wing bag. That way, the main wing bag isn't 120 pounds. It's a bit less, and I have two bags. But even on the trike, you can feel that the wing is heavier.

Good luck!
Steve

Hi Patrick,
This is a hard question because each wing will have different performance etc. But here it goes in general
1) Strutted wings are more becoming the norm than the exception in the US and now even starting to look that way in the UK
2) Strutted wings have obviously lower height allowing you to store in more range of hangers than classic wings
3) Strutted wings of similar models seem to show better glide ratios and efficiency and larger speed range than their counterparts, although this one is hard to quantify because a strutted wing even of the same model cannot be really exactly the same as its classic counterpart. Profi TL for instance can have a glide ratio of 12:1 where as Profi Classic has it only at 8.5:1. Profi TL is also a solid 13 mph faster than its cabled counterpart
4) Strutted wings can fold quickly on the trike with a little practice
5) Some people including me think Struts actually look better/cooler

Now the other side
1) Strutted wings are always going to be heavier than classic wings (about 15 pounds etc.)
2) Strutted wings although fast to fold are actually slower to bag if that's your cup of tea


3)

I have a question that may be ill-informed since I'm new to the sport. Is it possible - or even wise - to transport (trailer) a folding wing trike with the wing in the folded position? (as shown below) I'm assuming, of course, that some sort of protective sleeve/bag/cover could be utilized to protect the wing (and trike for that matter) as well as adequate cushioning to support the bar/wing. Or is this one of those, "why in the heck would you want to do that" questions?

Just from the photo I would say pull the battons! You can see that they are stressing the pockets. Also, I would have dropped the nose wires I think, they are probably stressing the keel. I don't know much about folding wings but I would suggest you can pull battons (easy) and de-tension the nose and roll the sail up, maybe even get the bag over it. If you're gonna roll it into an enclosed trailer you don't need to close it all the way but if your towing on an open trailer you need to tow it nose-first with the bag on, and nicely stabilized.

My own question now- your first trike is a Quik Mike?
You may have a steep learning curve if it is a blazing fast Quik. Good luck!

Wow... what happened to my reply? OK, here goes again.

John, this is not my trike, I captured it from a PowerPoint demo of DeRigging a Quik. I only used it as a visual aid. Heck, I'm still waiting for Chuck Goodrum and good weather to start lessons. I read the thread on TrikeWing Innovations and was just wondering of there was a way to transport a topless wing trike in the folded position so it wouldn't be necessary to mount a wing tube on the coach.

I did get to see your video, Trike Wing Setup by the Sultan of (s)Wing. But the part about re-packing the wing happened so fast, I missed it!
Michael

Oh... My mistake Michael. Well, I would never do that to my wing! Hey, while we're on the subject, in my mind what we're looking at there is not a 'topless' wing at all, it is a 'strutted' wing. That is, the first ever reakky viable Topless wing (not counting the ProAir Dawn) was a hang glider, and it did not have struts at all, it had wires, and that is how most kingpost-less wings still are in hang gliding. They are truly 'topless' wings, which implies slightly better glide performance than a traditional kingposted wing and certainly better than a strutted wing too, those struts are very draggy.

It sounds like you were watching the Youtube video that Paul Hamilton put up about the trike set-up and breakdown right? In that case you are looking at an edited version which abbreviates somewhat the set-up and a great deal of the breakdown. If you wanted to whatch the un-edited version you can buy that from Paul.

Send my regards to Chuck Goodrum. Tell him I have published yet another thrilling novel: TAKING MEXICO FLYING!

John,
Sounds like I still have a ways to go in coming to terms with the terminology. I saw the Sultan of (s)Wing video on YouTube... I had no idea it was a tease for a DVD... I'll have to do some more searching. Will do when I see Chuck, I can't wait to start shifting my weight around.
Michael

Shovin, Michael. "Shovin' my weight around!"
My ol' amigos Paul and Loretta Hamilton have quite an eStore:
http://www.ap-stores.com/

Great resource, John... thanks for the link! These folks will definitely be getting some of my money.

Michael,

Yes, it's entirely possible to trailer the trike with the wing folded on it. Ole's certainly right about taking the battens out of the sail first! That poor Quik wing is crying in pain. Here's a picture that Denny Reed of BackCountry Aerosports in Spokane sent me, along with his email when I was asking the same question.

Denny is a NorthWing dealer. The wing is a NorthWing mPulse. Notice the support for the wing at the back of the trailer. You don't want to go down the road with the wing supported only by the hang point. Denny wrote:
"

Steve,

You’re not going to believe this, but you can actually be set up even faster by modifying a trailer to accommodate the trike with the wing still attached… We’ve done about 6 trailers if you need any hints someday. This is an AirCreation GTE with an MPulse 15m. Takes about 12 minutes, but the kicker is that there’s no strength or athleticism required. … The down side is that you have to have a good cover made for the wing."

Michael,
Here are some other pictures. These are from a friend in Virginia Beach who bought a Monsoon trike with a Profi TL wing. He says that he can fold the wing as you see here in 10 minutes, now that he has some practice. The only problem with this style of trailering is that I don't see any way to protect the trike from rain and road spray. And while the whole deal would certainly fit inside a big trailer, I don't know how you'd load it. I assume that the wing below was folded ON the trailer, because once the mast is folded and the control bar is on the ground, the trike definitely doesn't roll.

Thanks, Steve... now, that's what I'm talking about! How about this paired with Joe Swift's hydraulic Amerideck! Like Denny says, get custom covers to protect both the trike and wing from rain/road spray and you're there.

Yes, indeed! Now, be sure and get a trike that has a pneumatic strut to help you lower the wing. Most newer trikes have this. If you don't (I don't), then raising and lowering the mast with the wing attached is a bit of a heft. Wings weight 100-120 pounds. You don't have to lift the whole thing, because the mast bears some of the weight (more and more of it as the mast raises). But it's still heavy. Worse, on a trike with no fairing, the lifting tends to want to topple the trike over backwards, so you need to weight down the front of the trike. The strut solves all that. Look for it.

Good luckj!
Steve

Hi Steve beste, can i ask how much you paid for the Aeros PROFI TL, im increadebly intrested in microlights, but the thought of haveing to do some crazy origami everytime you want to fly it or the weather gets too bad, sounds insane. This folding wing sounds like an awesome idea. Also do all microlights have standard fittings? could i buy a older rig and put a new wing on it?

For example
http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=15080&imid=3

im trying to find the cheepest way to find a good microlight, i know if you buy some of them new you can spend up to £30.000.

They look like simple enough machines, the wing looks like the most complicated part, therefore should probaly cost the most.

That strutted QuikR fold configuration (with some of the battes still on - only the 3 most inward battes on each side are taken off) .. is not designed for towing or long storage! is only a way to quickly fold to get into a hanger (for example). Once in the hanger the wing can be open a bit to realease any tension in the battens. The photo is just inteded to show that is possible to fold the wing with some of the battens still in the wing. The owner's manual has more especific information.

Is fine with the battens on for a quick fold and moving around; however, For long storage with wing folded over the trike I will recommend taking all battens off and fold the sail.

As far as the original question "advantages and disadvantages of topless wings" Steve and Abid summarized them pretty well.

Tony C

My fault, Tony... I was looking for a picture of a folded wing and didn't even know enough about the battens to pick the right photo. OBTW, I sure hope this weather changes soon, I'd still like to come up to Mathis and look at your trike!
Michael

Mike
Go to gibbogear.com and click on photo gallery to see another transorting of the topless wing.
Bill

Thanks, Bill!