Rotax 582 quit in the air :-(

Tue, Jul 14 2009 05:18pm CDT 1
Turbo Boss
Turbo Boss
4 Posts

This is my first post, so hello to everybody. I am from Panama Rep. of Panama, Central America.

Since many of you use Rotax 582, maybe sobody here has the clue of my problem.

This almost new Rotax 582 Blue Head with only 100 hrs in a Quicksilver decide to quit in the air. Emergency landing was ok with no damage to the Quicksilver neither to the pilot.

This engine is Oil injection and use Penzoil oil

The engine was working perfectly and sudenly the RPM beguin to drop until it stop completely :(

We decide to open the motor today and we remove "only" the cylinders. This is what we found. (Next weekend I will open the crankcase to see what I find.)

If you check the pics you will see a cooper color part. This part was stuck on the crankshaft.

Were this part coming from? Were it goes in the engine and why this happened?

Any clue?

THX,

Isaac

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/Turbo_Boss/Ultralights/MotorPillo.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/Turbo_Boss/Ultralights/MotorPillo1.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/Turbo_Boss/Ultralights/MotorPillo4.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/Turbo_Boss/Ultralights/MotorPillo2.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/Turbo_Boss/Ultralights/MotorPillo3.jpg

Tue, Jul 21 2009 03:06am CDT 2
DEMETRI NEOPHYTOU
DEMETRI NEOPHYTOU
16 Posts
Hello my friend.
Without being very shure about what you find it seems that the copper part you find there came from the copper conrod that is on the sleeve that connects THE CONROD on the crankshaft surrounded by the small cylindrical bearings and the only reason that i can think of for this to happen is LACK OF 2-STROKE OIL LUBRICATION.From the HEAT has melted and slice out from the crank-bearing fitting.
Interested to see what you will find under the bonnet when you will open the Crankshasft.
Please write again.
Tue, Jul 21 2009 09:40am CDT 3
Greg Hood
Greg Hood
12 Posts
I see you posted this on http://www.microlighters.co.za/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10989!

Fantastic microlight site that one, highly recommended. I thought, wow, that problem is amazingly similar to something that happened in SA. Foot in mouth
Wed, Aug 19 2009 01:32pm CDT 4
John Olson
John Olson
353 Posts
Hey amigo did you do anything with that oil-injection bottle that made an air bubble in the line? Maybe you emptied it for some reason and then filled it back up again? I have learned this hard lesson the hard way: If you do anything at all with the oil injector reserve you need to establish that it is still getting oil through the pump. Mark the oil level and then go fly with some pre-mixed fuel in your tank. Only when you are certain the level has dropped in the bottle can you switch to raw fuel.
Ole
Mon, Aug 24 2009 10:28pm CDT 5
Mark Rubenstein
Mark Rubenstein
4 Posts
Hey which Pennzoil oil did you use? Did you use the Pennzoil 2 cycle air cooled engine oil, or the Pennzoil Outboard and multipurpose 2 cycle oil or by any chance any other version of Pennzoil? I was just reading an article on the web, although they used a 503 in the test, here is the article if you want to read it.

http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm

Mark

(the Pennzoil 2 cycle air cooled engine oil/low ash was rated the best in the test)
Fri, Sep 18 2009 01:55pm CDT 6
John Strachan
John Strachan
1 Posts

Had a 582 silver top do exactly the same with me in a Quantum, had to land in a field. The guy who supplied me with a new block explained that 582s kept him in business. Apparently he's had 2000 hr engines and 30 hr engines go in exactly the same way. I've gone over to the very sound 912 4 stroke. I've had 503s and they are great, wouldn't have another 582 though.

Fri, Sep 18 2009 04:04pm CDT 7
Pete Marsh
Pete Marsh
4 Posts

Yeah,
Looks like a piece of a bushing to me. Did you remove the piston from the connecting rod? Is the piston "sloppy" on the end of the rod? Also...check your carbs. Sometimes parts (like jets or other small carb parts) can vibrate loose and get drawn into the engine. The way the top of your piston is chewed up makes me think of a small brass part bouncing around ontop of the piston dome.

good luck

Pete

Fri, Sep 18 2009 04:10pm CDT 8
Pete Marsh
Pete Marsh
4 Posts

Issac,

Are you a HAM radio operator? The only guys I have ever seen that say Thank You as "TNX" are HAMS! Just wondering...

73 de AL7PI

Pete

Fri, Sep 18 2009 05:49pm CDT 9
Turbo Boss
Turbo Boss
4 Posts
Hey guys,

Well its look like Demetri Neophytou was right on what happened to this engine. Just a few days ago a mechanic check this engine and he confirm that the cooper thing is from the copper conrod that is on the sleeve that connects the CONROD on the crankshaft surrounded by the small cylindrical bearings. He saw the Conrod/Crankshaft area an it has a blue color meaning overheating. For some reason that part was not lubricating very well and got overheated.

Maybe the 2 cycle oil injection pump was not adjusted correctly but the thing is that this engine is FUBAR.

The owner already order a complete new 582 engine and the same mechanic is instaling it on the quicksilver.

THX

Isaac

PD: Hey Pete, I use to be a HAM radio operator :-)



Sun, Sep 20 2009 10:02pm CDT 10
Turbo Boss
Turbo Boss
4 Posts
Ok, here are the pics of the bad crankshaf area were you can see that both cooper washer are missing. Also look the dark black color meaning overheating..................You can see also a lot of metal debriss.




This other pic, is from the Crankshaft area from the piston that was in good condition. You can see both cooper washers.


Sun, Oct 4 2009 07:57pm CDT 11
Carlito Frias
Carlito Frias
23 Posts

Thank you so much for sharing things like this. I have a 582 with 60+ hours. I have not experienced any engine shutdown. My engine is not equipped with oil injection. I have to pre-mix my oil with my gasoline. Nevertheless, stories like yours drive home the point of safety and good maintenance. Thanks again. Good luck on your future flights.

Cal

Thu, Oct 15 2009 10:30am CDT 12
Clyde Poser
Clyde Poser
18 Posts

On one of the pictures of the conrod that did not fail it appears there is some corrsion. If there is corrosion on the conrod there would definitely be some corrosion on the bearings. Any corrosion pitting on the bearings will cause them to loosen and with that additional play they will begin to push harder against the copper thrust washer. Being copper that will soon wear and fail. Now the lower part of the conrod will begin to move sideways with each stroke and the bearing will fail and the engine will stop. This isn't a lack of lubrication, but is caused by how the engine is cared for during times it isn't flying. In tropical areas where there is a lot of humidity and possibly salt air the engine should be treated with fogging oil and closed with air tight plugs in the exhaust and intakes after each flight. This will prevent corrosion starting on the bearings and the subsequent failure.

Thu, Oct 15 2009 05:05pm CDT 13
John Olson
John Olson
353 Posts
Clyde how about if you just choke it to death and then plug it up?
Ole
FAA-610 "Where Fun goes to die."
Fri, Oct 16 2009 03:34am CDT 14
DEMETRI NEOPHYTOU
DEMETRI NEOPHYTOU
16 Posts
Engine with only 100 hours,,,,a bit difficult to say that the reason for this to happen was only corrosion.
Most probably the corrosion occured due to the expose of the open engine to the atmospheric air,and to more oxygen, usually this is what causing corrosion to built up especially if the engine was fuel ingested or there were unburned fuels in the belly or anywhere else inside the engine.
Tue, Oct 20 2009 01:51pm CDT 15
Vince  Morson
Vince Morson
90 Posts
Clyde,

Are you saying you'd recommend removing the exhaust pipe and taking the carbs off every time you fly?

Vince
Wed, Oct 21 2009 07:49pm CDT 16
Diego AC
Diego AC
12 Posts

I agree with Clyde Poser, corrosion is a big thing hire in the tropics, what I do to my 503 is I tern  it off with the choke like John Olson mentioned        and immediately I put a damped rag with 2 cycle oil in the exhaust and then I cover the air filter with a plastic bag. I also happen to agree with John Strachan I have herd a lot of things with the 582´s failing, with the 503´s nothing, right now there is a guy in our group that has a 503 with 650 + hours, he hasn't changed anything except spark plugs every 25 hours oil in the gear box and the fan belt. Amazing little engine!!!    

Thu, Oct 22 2009 01:37pm CDT 17
Vince  Morson
Vince Morson
90 Posts

OK- that sounds practical for all of us. I'm in the Pacific Northwest, and dampness/ humidity is a problem here too, especially in the winter.

Thanks Diego

Thu, Nov 5 2009 02:32am CST 18
Vassili Tarakanov
Vassili Tarakanov
11 Posts
ROTAX QUIT IN THE AIR... This is so boring topic. My friend and I were flying amphib trike. Suddenly the engine stopped. We landed. Iasked him "what happened?" The answer was "Nothing, just Rotax" We started the engine again and took off...

You guys, who flys carburated engines, especially 2-strokers, look heroes for me. I love flying. When I go to the airport, I don't think about jetting, gas quality etc. When I fly, I don't want to think than my engine can quit any moment. That is why I fly fiel injected GEO-Suzuki. NO one engine out for the last 9 years. No problems with cold start, humidity, gas or oil quality, overheating, carb icing etc. They are solved for modern car engines, why do most of us still use "steam age" technologies? Who do converted auto engines are so rare on trikes, regardless they are available, not expensive, reliable and proven for our aircraft?

Vassili
WWW.AIRTRIKES.NET
Thu, Nov 5 2009 11:25am CST 19
Lars Pettersson
Lars Pettersson
3 Posts
Suddenly the engine stopped. We landed. Iasked him "what happened?" The answer was "Nothing, just Rotax" We started the engine again and took off...

In this case it sounds like the problem is the owner,No engine stops without reason.So if you don't try to solve it you will have problem no matter what brand.

// Lars
Thu, Nov 5 2009 01:56pm CST 20
Turbo Boss
Turbo Boss
4 Posts
Guys, the corrosion you see on the piston rod is because we leave the motor open for severals weeks and it was the exposed to the atmospheric air, causing corrosion to built up. That corrosion was not there when we open the motor and those pics whats taken later.

This engine was on a Quicksilver that was used almost every weekend so I am pretty sure this engine does not have a chance to get rust for not using it. We all on the club use Penzoil 2 cycle oil and have a lots of 582 Grey and Blue head and this is the first time this happened in our club.

THX,

Isaac

Sun, Nov 8 2009 10:29pm CST 21
Qazi  Ajmal
Qazi Ajmal
7 Posts
hi.i see all the comment.s.that to much intrusting.coz ur engine stuck,that a big problem.i have also rotax 582 blue.u can check ur whole engine.all part.s why they creat problem .i hope safe flying. atanx QAZI AJMAL
Tue, Nov 10 2009 06:48am CST 22
Peter Shetler
Peter Shetler
38 Posts
Suddenly the engine stopped. We landed. Iasked him "what happened?" The answer was "Nothing, just Rotax" We started the engine again and took off...

In this case it sounds like the problem is the owner,No engine stops without reason.So if you don't try to solve it you will have problem no matter what brand.

// Lars 

Wow.  Gotta say I am with Lars on this one.  Been a mechanic for many years.  Engines don't "just stop".  Including (maybe especially) Rotax engines.  Including (maybe especially) Rotax 2-stroke engines.  Any pilot that takes off again after an engine out without determining and fixing the cause deserves the next engine out (which will happen) and should certainly not endanger passengers with this kind of recklessness.

 

Peter

Please login or sign up to post on this network.
Click here to sign up.