Wings can be very different and transition training into any new wing should be accomplished

Mon, Dec 26 2016 04:22pm CST 1
Paul Hamilton
Paul Hamilton
237 Posts
by Bryan Tuffnell 2 hours ago
At the risk of continuing a theme that Paul wants to see dropped, a couple of facts stand out:
1) An unacceptable number of pilots are dying, and they are doing so in very ordinary circumstances which would not challenge a pilot with moderate but complete skills.
2) There are a few pilots on forums such as this whose opinions on technique are worth listening to, and a lot who don't have a grasp of the basics. Look at how often spins are mentioned, for example. But there is no filtering on bad advice.
3) The dynamics of a weight shift actuated, aerodynamically controlled flexible wing is very complex, but for the most part the piloting principles are similar to 3 axis flying. Yet a significant number of pilots are unaware of the principles of basic aircraft fflight control principles.
4) We have an example now of a modern wing that can be put into a situation where normal techniques are not adequate to control the wing.

If we had better skilled instructors we'd be turning out pilots who could easily cope with the kind of situations that are currently causing fatalities. It's not often that superb skills are needed, and sound basics would save lives. We're an uneducated lot, whatever we think. If we could filter out the dross from this site and knew who to listen to, we'd find outstanding, helpful information about flying better.

A warning about the slipping characteristics of an XT912 Arrow is warranted, as this type has this foible and is over-represented in fatalities, in my opinion.

Apologies, Paul - I know you want less, not more, of the above.
Mon, Dec 26 2016 04:24pm CST 2
Paul Hamilton
Paul Hamilton
237 Posts
Another comment about different wings
Mon, Dec 26 2016 08:42pm CST 3
Bryan Tuffnell
Bryan Tuffnell
13 Posts
Just to add to my comments above: no slur on instructors is intended. What I see is more the need for a fixed, agreed, standard syllabus.
Tue, Dec 27 2016 03:48am CST 4
Bryan Tuffnell
Bryan Tuffnell
13 Posts
I've just heard of another case of a pilot locked out a turn. He recovered by chance. It happened to be on an Arrow, but I think that's coincidental. Call it a spiral dive or slipping turn it or whatever you like, the absence of understanding the basics of a turn almost got another...

How many trike instructors teach balanced turns?
Tue, Dec 27 2016 08:27am CST 5
Larry  Mednick
Larry Mednick
36 Posts
Bryan, I am going to try and make a video of what a slip is. I think there may be lack of understanding from some. One of my instructors asked what a slipping turn was, followed by "doesnt that just mean you are losing altitude?"

I to have heard from quite a few people that "made it out" by chance with said wing. One even called me after the discussion surfaced here on TPS.


Tue, Dec 27 2016 08:39am CST 6
Larry  Mednick
Larry Mednick
36 Posts
The Hazzard 15 is another that locks out. It is quite different in that the inside wing stalls easily when banking as low as 45 degrees with the control bar no where near the front strut. . Recovery is immediate with bar in and over. I know buddy With Trick Trikes almost went in with one about 15 years ago. I flew his wing after and verified it was no different than all the other H 15s.

I haven't experienced any other wings to date that did anything I could see being a problem for some. I understand the Raven is another older wing with similar problem in a spiral, but I have never flown that one.


Tue, Dec 27 2016 09:38am CST 7
Doug Boyle
Doug Boyle
168 Posts
From the Instructional side of the equation, I feel that the onus of producing a complete pilot rests upon us. This is not to say that we have the last word however. There is latitude for an Instructor to determine IF the pilot is "safe enough" to proceed. The premise here is based upon the feeling that learning will always have a place regardless of experience or hours accomplished-both in the Instructor and the Student! To clarify, both can make mistakes and the threshold is never completely negated. The student presents a moving target; dynamic, if you will. The Instructor adjusts, as necessary. Add to that all the variables that differ between personalities, abilities, expectations, and conditions. It is not a perfect science but very necessary nonetheless.

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